I have a high interest - 26.99% Wells Fargo credit cad.
Wells Fargo issues me a 0% @12 months card.
Wells Fargo denies valid purchase charge on 0% card to steer such onto the 26.99% card.
Wells Fargo does so under the guise of "anti fraud".
Wells Fargo then processes identical amount bank acct. debit via the same source, Paypal, a mere 18 seconds later!
Wells Fargo continues to attempt to steer communications to phone calls rather than writing/text to minimize avoid a paper trail of their bank's practices.
BEWARE Wells Fargo/Paypal scams to steer charges from low to high interest credit card
I am issued a new credit card, with a $7,000 limit, with 0% interest for 12 months, activated on June 23, 2018
I enter this new credit card into my Paypal account, set it as the "preferred" method of payment, and begin making some small charges on this card via Paypal, that same day.
On Tuesday, June 26, 2018, I make an $835 charge directly to a merchant in Tennessee, and within a few minutes receive a robo call from Wells Fargo asking me to confirm or deny all of my charges up to that point. I confirm all of the charges.
On Wednesday, June 28, 2018, at around 11am EST, I make a $1999 charge via Paypal for a purchase made on Ebay.
Ebay shows the purchase and payment is made.
I receive no call from Wells Fargo about this charge.
On Thursday, June 29, 2018, I receive an email from Wells Fargo informing me that my checking account now has a negative balance. I telephone Wells Fargo.
I am told that Wells Fargo denied my $1999 credit card charge via Paypal.
And that Wells Fargo and Paypal processed an unauthorized debit via Paypal for that amount from my Wells Fargo checking account, draining its $78 balance, and applying the balance - $1921 - back to my credit card.
But not to the credit card that I made the charge to, which was the just issued one with the 0% for 12 months, but rather my older credit card with the 26.99% interest.
This was done all "automatically" with no communication to me from either Wells Fargo nor Paypal until afterwards.
The only communication I received from Paypal was the standard email informing me of the purchase-payment, indicating that it had been made by a debit on my checking account, with no mention of any attempt to be instead processed by the credit card which I had authorized within the past few days. Paypal had additional credit cards on file with my account with them, yet made no apparent attempt to charge any of them, instead just going into my checking account without authorization. A review of my Paypal log reveals a mere 18 seconds between the authorized charge to my new credit card that was improperly denied by Wells Fargo, and the subsequent unauthorized debit to my bank account, at 7:36:32 and 7:36:50 PST, nearly 12 hours after I placed the order.
If a credit card charge from a source is deemed "fraudulent", then how is an identical amount bank account debit charge moments later from the same source somehow valid?
Within this Thursday, June 29, 2018 phone call with Wells Fargo, their agent admits to having information that Wells Fargo failed to contact me regarding this $1999 purchase, in contrast to their contacting me the previous day for the $835 purchase. If Wells Fargo had only been first made aware of the charge at the time indicated by the Paypal log, and if there had been a valid concern of fraud -- doubtful as it was coming through an established Paypal account, via the same home computer used for the earlier such charges, and well within the credit limit -- why was I not given a robo call chance to either confirm or deny the charge? And again, if truly a concern about fraud, then how is an attempted bank account debit from the same source for the same amount likewise something that should just be quickly processed without a robo call to me asking me to either confirm or deny that debit?
She has no information as to why that latter charge would be denied. It was within my credit limit. And the method of payment had already been established. It was a Paypal account of mine in use since 2011, and with the earlier Wells Fargo credit card since 2016. I had already used the new, 0% credit card though that Paypal account for a few days, and had verified the charges to Wells Fargo when they phoned me on June 26, 2018 to verify the $835 charge, along with the earlier charges on that new card.
I ask her why then did not Wells Fargo simply follow through with a 2nd such phone verification call at some point following my $1999 charge. She tells me that was because it was not necessary, as I had already, on the previous day, verified the earlier charges when Wells Fargo phoned me. So, why, then did Wells Fargo fail to honor that subsequent charge, given that the venue was already established? She says she did not know, and puts me on hold to speak with a supervisor. A few minutes later she returns with the answer: that that charge was denied because I had failed to telephone Wells Fargo to verify that charge.
So Wells Fargo had changed their policy between June 27 and June 28, 2018 and had failed to inform me of that beforehand?
She tells me that Wells Fargo will correct the errors.
I subsequently check my Wells Fargo on line access over the next few days.
Wells Fargo fails to do so. The unauthorized $20 transaction fee remains, as does the mis-posting of the charge to the high interest card, rather than the 0% card that I made the charge on.
Subsequently, I use the Wells Fargo text message system.. I send then text messages from me to Wells Fargo via their system are met with automated boiler plate responses that continually direct me to telephone them, and Wells Fargo fails to respond in writing to any of my case specifics.
===
Subject: Re: Other questions or requests (KMM66478484V89348L0KM)
From:Customer Service
06/29/2018 11:04 AM
Dear Douglas Willinger:
Thank you for contacting Wells Fargo. My name is Celeste, and it is my
pleasure to assist you today.
I understand your concerns regarding an unauthorized transaction that
posted to the credit card account.. I am grateful that you brought this
matter to our attention.
Mr. Willinger, because of the nature of the situation and the feedback
you provided, I have forwarded your concerns to our Executive Office to
help ensure that this matter is properly addressed. Your case reference
number is 229075207. A representative from the Executive Office will
contact you within two business days at phone number 914-241-3006.
If you prefer to speak with a representative from our Executive Office
immediately, or if at any time you would like information regarding your
case, you can reach the Executive Office directly at 1-877-224-5356.
Their hours of operation are Monday through Friday from 6:00 a.m. to
6:00 p.m., Pacific Time. Please provide the case number above when you
call.
I appreciate your patience and apologize for any inconvenience you may
have experienced. We look forward to speaking with you soon.
On behalf of Wells Fargo, thank you for your business. We are happy to
have you as our customer and appreciate the opportunity to assist you
today.
Sincerely,
Celeste M.
Wells Fargo
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
-----------------
Wells Fargo failed to honor a valid credit card charge, fails to call me for any confirmation despite doing so a day earlier, then accepts in invalid request from paypal to go to my bank account, causing it to go below zero, then transfers charge to my other card.
Wells Fargo needs to correct this. Otherwise wells fargo has here used its "fraud" program to place charge upon the credit card that i did not authorize for this purchase.
I phoned wells fargo yesterday and was told this would be corrected. But when I check my accounts today I see that wells fargo has not.
Please correct this. Or I will have to contact the attorney general.
What has transpired is wells fargo fraudulently abusing their anti fraud system in order to game the interest rate.
Thank you for contacting Wells Fargo. My name is Celeste, and it is my
pleasure to assist you today.
I understand your concerns regarding an unauthorized transaction that
posted to the credit card account.. I am grateful that you brought this
matter to our attention.
Mr. Willinger, because of the nature of the situation and the feedback
you provided, I have forwarded your concerns to our Executive Office to
help ensure that this matter is properly addressed. Your case reference
number is 229075207. A representative from the Executive Office will
contact you within two business days at phone number 914-241-3006.
If you prefer to speak with a representative from our Executive Office
immediately, or if at any time you would like information regarding your
case, you can reach the Executive Office directly at 1-877-224-5356.
Their hours of operation are Monday through Friday from 6:00 a.m. to
6:00 p.m., Pacific Time. Please provide the case number above when you
call.
I appreciate your patience and apologize for any inconvenience you may
have experienced. We look forward to speaking with you soon.
On behalf of Wells Fargo, thank you for your business. We are happy to
have you as our customer and appreciate the opportunity to assist you
today.
Sincerely,
Celeste M.
Wells Fargo
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
-----------------
Wells Fargo failed to honor a valid credit card charge, fails to call me for any confirmation despite doing so a day earlier, then accepts in invalid request from paypal to go to my bank account, causing it to go below zero, then transfers charge to my other card.
Wells Fargo needs to correct this. Otherwise wells fargo has here used its "fraud" program to place charge upon the credit card that i did not authorize for this purchase.
I phoned wells fargo yesterday and was told this would be corrected. But when I check my accounts today I see that wells fargo has not.
Please correct this. Or I will have to contact the attorney general.
What has transpired is wells fargo fraudulently abusing their anti fraud system in order to game the interest rate.
---
I again text them requesting that all communications be in writing. I receive an automated text reply again lacking any specifics, though making no mention of further communication via phone.
The next day, Wells Fargo has still not corrected the problem, and again attempts to contact me by telephone, contrary to my request.
Wells Fargo's failure to communicate in writing only compounds the reality of their attempting to get away with unethical, probably illegal banking practices in order to collect unjustified fees and card interest income. That Wells Fargo deliberately steered the $1999 charge from the 0% card that I had specified, to the 26.99% card, is further indicated by the arbitrary, unjustified nature of their denying that initial charge and that they broke from the pattern of the previous day, when they robo called me about the $835 charge, but failed to do so with the $1999 charge.
No showing of any "fraud" with the $1999 charge to the new0% interest credit card.
No attempt by either Wells Fargo nor Paypal to contact me to either verify or deny that charge.
Just a quick processing of an unwarranted denial of a legitimate charge through an already established venue, and an unauthorized debit to my bank account.
Not done for the sake of combating fraud.
But rather, for facilitating such, through the steering of a purchase charge from a credit card with 0% interest to another with 26.9% interest, for a purchase I had held off until obtaining the )% interest card.
A deed done via a pair of entities, Wells Fargo and Paypal with a long and far closer relationship the one might initially imagine, as they had signed an agreement in 2002 making Wells Fargo the processor of all U.S. based credit card transactions made via Paypal.
They knew what they were doing.
Thus, I will not be liable for any of the added fees and interest payments resulting from Wells Fargo fraudulent practices.
Therefore, I shall not accept the $20 "overdraft protection" fee, let alone any interest payments for a period of 12 months related to the $1999 charge that Wells Fargo so steered for the sake of such unwarranted fees and excess interest.
Any such funds that I may be forced to pay, nor related balance transfer fees, shall ultimately be made liable upon Wells Fargo, as so should be the case with the countless other customers so victimized by this sort of scam, with the monetary amounts compounded at the 26.99% rate they charge on such credit card accounts. Plus, of course any fines imposed by the government, let alone long overdue criminal prosecutions against the higher ups within the Wells Fargo corporate system responsible.
Wells Fargo already has an awful reputation for abusing its customers, as anyone can find via a web engine search, leading to among other things some $1 billion in fines recently.
Some elected officials have asked why Wells Fargo's charter has not been revoked, Elizabeth Warren,has stated that their CEO needs to be fired, and even Wall Street has expressed amazement at Wells Fargo's sheer level and magnitude of abusing its customers.
Yet Wells Fargo's Board of Directors and CEO continue to collect massive salaries without any penalties for presiding over such banking practices.
Update: July 7, 2018
Today I receive an email from Wells Fargo concerning a stop payment order that I supposedly made, regarding the 26.99% interest credit card. Of course this message asks me to phone them.
---
Regarding: Account Number
XXXXXXXXX5617
Date Requested
07/06/2018
CO ID
PAYPALSI77
Company Name
PAYPAL
Individual Name
DOUGLAS WILLINGER
Stop Payment Option Selected
STOP DEBITS BY ACH COMPANY ID
This letter confirms the stop payment order you recently placed. Please review the stop option noted above carefully to ensure accuracy and completeness. If the information is inaccurate or incomplete, please immediately call the customer service phone number on your bank statement.
What does the stop option mean?
A stop payment option at the Company ID level: If this option is selected, any automatic payment sent to your account with the Company ID noted above will be automatically returned as stop payment, regardless of the dollar amount or payee information.
A stop payment option at the Company ID and Individual ID level: If this option is selected, any automatic payment sent to your account with the Company ID and Individual ID will be automatically returned as stop payment, regardless of the dollar amount. Please note that the Company ID must match exactly as noted above in order to successfully stop the transaction.
This stop option will remain on your account until requested to be deleted. To remove the stop option, please contact the customer service phone number listed on your bank statement.
We appreciate your business and thank you for banking with Wells Fargo.
---
When I attempt to send them a reply, asking them in writing to indicate where, when and how I made such an order, their web site message system makes that impossible by failing to activate the "send" button. Only after the 3rd attempt or so does it work.
Note that I an supposed to telephone Wells Fargo to remove a stop option that I did not place.
Wells Fargo is again insisting upon resorting to telephone calls, rather than place anything substantive in writing.
Their apparent fear at placing matters specifically into writing with their clients speaks volumes of their conscious-nous that they know they are doing wrong.
Updates July 10 & 14, 2018
I finally get the 1st Wells Fargo response that includes references to this case's specifics:
Subject: (KMM66617089V5695L0KM)
From:Customer Service
07/10/2018 10:54 AM
Contact Us
Dear Douglas Willinger:
Thank you for contacting Wells Fargo. My name is Joshua, and I am an
Email Care Specialist which your email was forwarded to for review. It
is my genuine pleasure to be of assistance for you at this time.
I received your follow-up email about the unauthorized transactions that
have been initiated between your Wells Fargo checking and credit card
accounts as well as your email regarding a stop payment that was
recently placed on your account.
Before we proceed any further, I first wanted to let you know that I
have provided a sufficient amount of information in this email to ensure
that I have properly addressed your concerns. For this reason, the email
may appear to be a bit lengthy.
Additionally, please be aware that we have received one or more emails
by you regarding the same issue. As a result, I will be closing out any
additional email(s) that have been sent and I will be addressing all of
your concerns through this reply.
While reviewing your emails, I have acknowledged that there was an
initial transaction for $1,999.99 from PayPal that was supposed to go
through your Credit Card account number ending in 4672 with the 0%
Annual Percentage Rate promotion, which appears to have actually gone
through your Credit Card account number ending in 0759 with 26%
interest. I realize that as a result of this issue, a transfer was made
from your Credit Card account number ending in 0759 after an additional
PayPal transaction for $1,999.99 was charged to your checking account
number ending in 5617.
Mr. Willinger, I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience and
frustrations that you have experienced. I certainly understand how
upsetting it can be to see that your initial and valid transaction had
gone through the wrong account, especially if it led to improper debits
being taken out. I would hate to see this become an even bigger issue
for you moving forward.
Please allow me to elaborate on the matter in hopes that it may provide
you with a better understanding on what had happened, and what we are to
do in order to rectify the issue.
First and foremost, I reviewed your Credit Card account number ending in
4672 and I have found that this is actually the account in which the
PayPal transaction for $1,999.99 had initially gone through from
06/27/2018. Please keep in mind that this is the account that currently
has a promotion for a 0% Annual Percentage Rate on purchases made.
At this time, I have found that the transaction from the card has been
marked as a fraudulent transaction and is currently being reviewed by
our Fraud Specialists.
Furthermore, while reviewing your checking account number ending in
5617, I can confirm that an additional PayPal transaction for $1,999.99
posted to your account on 06/27/2018, causing an overdrawn balance of
$1,921.71.
Because you did not authorized this transaction, and to help resolve
this issue for you as soon as possible, I personally opened a claim with
our Claims Department.
Your claim will be assigned to a Claim Specialist for additional
research. Our Claim Specialists are experts at researching and resolving
disputed transactions. If written confirmation is required, a form will
be sent to you. Your claim will be resolved or your account will be
temporarily adjusted within 10 business days.
Once the claim is resolved, a credit for the transaction will be
provided and any fees associated with the transaction will be
reimbursed, unless the claim is denied.
Your claim reference number is 1807060027802. Please reference this
claim number when contacting us regarding your claim.
Once the claim has been filed, Online Customer Service does not have
access to the claim information and will not be able to provide you with
any updates. However, if at any time you would like information
regarding the status of your claim, or if you would no longer like to
pursue the claim, you can call a Claim Specialist at 1-877-548-9230.
They are available to assist you Monday through Friday from 7:00 a.m. to
10:00 p.m. and Saturday from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m., Eastern Time.
This also confirms that a stop payment order has been completed on the
preauthorized payment to PayPal. We will make every attempt to stop
future items matching this exact merchant name and company ID; however,
we cannot guarantee the stop payment if the merchant presents the item
using a different merchant name or company ID number. The stop payment
will remain in effect until you remove it. Your reference number for the
stop payment is A818769444. Please use this reference number if you wish
to remove the stop payment. Please be aware that placing a stop payment
order does not release you from any contractual arrangements. You should
contact the issuing company to end any payment agreements. The notice
that you received about a stop payment being placed on your account was
a system generated notice that was a direct result of stop payment
number A818769444 being placed.
In regards to the transfer for $1,921.71 that was transferred from your
Credit Card account number ending in 0759, this was an overdraft
protection advance to offset the overdrawn balance in your checking
account.
The overdraft protection feature, a service which can prevent checking
overdrafts and can save you money on returned check fees, was originally
set up in your credit card account number ending in 0759 to provide
overdraft protection for your checking account number ending in 5617. It
was only until 06/28/2018 when I have found that this service was
canceled as your credit card account number ending in 4672 was
established to provide overdraft protection instead.
As a reminder, when there are insufficient funds in your checking
account to cover a check or other debit transaction, we will
automatically transfer either $25.00 or the exact amount of the
overdraft, whichever is larger, to cover the amount of the overdraft. If
the available funds in the overdraft protection account are less than
$25.00, we will transfer whatever is available.
The transaction fees for overdraft protection advances are:
* $12.50 if the total of overdraft protection advances for the day is
$0.00 - $50.00
* $20.00 if the total of overdraft protection advances for the day is
greater than $50.00
Your account may also be subject to applicable interest charges for Cash
Advances from the date the cash advance transaction posts to your
account until the amount is paid in full. There is no grace period for
cash advances. Please refer to your Customer Agreement and Disclosure
Statement for more information regarding periodic interest charges and
transaction interest charges.
However, as I have already mentioned above, because the PayPal
transaction that was debited out of your checking account is
unauthorized, any fees associated with the transaction will be
reimbursed, which may also include the overdraft protection advance of
$1,921.71.
Going back to the original PayPal transaction that was charged from your
credit card account number ending in 4672, since this transaction is
currently being reviewed by our Fraud Specialists, it may be necessary
to please call our Fraud Prevention department anytime at 1-800-723-5533
for more information about the claim currently in place. If you are not
in the U.S., you can call us collect at 1-925-825-7600.
If you have further questions or concerns, please call us anytime at
1-800-642-4720 for Credit Card inquiries, or 1-800-TO-WELLS
(1-800-869-3557) for inquiries on your checking or savings account.
With that being said, I am truly sorry once more for the frustration and
inconvenience this matter has caused you. It is my hope that the
information provided is a bit more responsive to your concerns and
clarifies the bank's actions regarding this matter. We also regret these
circumstances have caused you to have a negative perception of our
company, and we truly hope for a future opportunity to regain your faith
and good regard.
On behalf of Wells Fargo, thank you for your business. Please be sure to
have a very wonderful and safe rest of your day!
Sincerely,
Joshua H.
Wells Fargo
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
-----------------
As of today, July 5, 2018, Wells Fargo has failed to correct the series of improper transactions with the effect of steering a charge I made on my 0% credit card, instead onto my card with the 26% interest. This is despite a 30 minute phone call with Wells Fargo on June 28, the same day I was notified of these improper Wells Fargo transactions, where I was told that the problem would be corrected.
In the time since, I have used this text messaging system to make inquiries about this matter. But instead of receiving any material responses from Wells Fargo, I only receive boiler plate messages attempting to steer these communications to phone calls.
That is unacceptable.
The communications regarding this matter must be made in writing/text, in order to keep a better record of this affair and about Wells Fargo banking practices.
4860aff9-8fe7-48f2-84ef-f6431368b482
---
Wells Fargo marks a valid, authorized credit card charge to my 0% card as "fraudulant", gives no reasonfor doing so, then processes an identical amount debit to my bank account from the same source 18 seconds later.
Wells Fargo Agrees To Pay $1 Billion To Settle Customer Abuse Claims
https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wells-fargo-agrees-pay-billion-settle-customer-abuse/story?id=54616833
Wells Fargo agreed Friday to pay $1 billion to settle with two U.S. regulators who accused the nation’s third largest bank of abusing its customers.
The settlement comes two years after Wells Fargo was found to have opened millions of accounts in customers’ names that they did not know about or want.
The amount of the settlement is the largest imposed on a bank under the Trump administration. It will be split between the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.“It’s a serious matter and I think the amount of the settlement reflects that,” CFPB interim director Mick Mulvaney told ABC News. “While the CFPB will be working to try to reduce unnecessary regulations on the industry that doesn’t mean that folks will be free to abuse consumers.”
Wells Fargo Blasted By Shareholders For Series Of Abuses
http://money.cnn.com/2018/04/24/investing/wells-fargo-annual-meeting/index.html
Angry shareholders slammed Wells Fargo on Tuesday for abusing customers and tarnishing its reputation.
"This company has harmed and wounded millions of its customers," activist shareholder Sister Nora Nash said at the bank's annual shareholder meeting.
Demonstrators gathered outside the meeting in Des Moines, Iowa, to protest Wells Fargo's various scandals as well as its financing for fossil fuel projects and gun manufacturing.Despite criticism of Wells Fargo (WFC), the bank's directors were all re-elected on Tuesday by a wide majority. None of the shareholder proposals pushing to rein in the bank received enough support to pass.
